Imaging Setup Solutions/Comparison : Permanent Observatory vs Mobile

[shahgazer]

Sungguh la best dedicated CCD+permanent observatory ni. Site tetap important? First few telescopes yang sebesar rumah dibuat oleh tauke tanah kaya ended up digunakan hanya beberapa hari dalam setahun sbb kerap berawan, mendung dan hujan. Tak ingat nama org ni.

Malaysia's style, for imaging.. grab whenever clear sky is available.

Setup 1
Advantage of permanent observatory when that occurs:
1. Switch ON
2. tekan ENTER

Clouds come by, close roof.. baca buku (untuk yang student la..  )

Setup 2
If 'mobile observatory' , advantage
1. Pack masuk kereta.
2. Main kejar-kejar dengan awan
<not stuck at one site>

when reach observation site.
1. Unpack
2. Setup mount, scope, cameras etc (1/2 hour)
3. Drift align  )(&(#R^$#*&^#     ( 1/2- 1 hour?)
4. If Drift align ok, then baru boleh start 'proper' imaging
5. Clouds come in, bungkus plastik 

From my humble beginner's point of view of imaging
1. Setup 1 can start doing work average.. say within 5 minutes?
2. Setup 2 .. can spend almost 1 hour (min) for drift alignment. itu pun if the weather well-behaved. Then baru boleh start imaging
3. Issues with Setup 1. we are stuck with the local weather/llighting condition. (cannot sembunyi belakang chalet elak glare dari lampu jalan-stuff)
4. Setup 2, very flexible, can find best spot almost any square inch area.


From my observation during the Punggai event:
1. Keep imaging setup simple on remote site.
2. Setup to complicated, plus weather teasing around, can be very exhausting.
3. No issues for permanent observatory.. as fas as the well-being of the observer is concern.

Interesting topic. I will make this a new topic if agree.

BTW, I still never agree colourizing a BW picture if we don't capture using proper RGB filters on the objects. Stretching a LRGB photos to reveal 'better' detail... well that's another story..

[perseid]

Welcome to astronomy in Malaysia. Kerap lawan dengan awan saja. Kadangkala, jelebu!!!

Bagi saya observatory tetap, pilihan saya. Ada banyak kelebihan berbanding dengan mobile observatory.

Kelebihan
1) Tak perlu setup - jimat masa setup, set-down (simpan balik), masuk kereta, keluar kereta, pandu kereta pergi/balik....penat
2) Accuracy lebih baik - tak habis masa buat alignment lagi
3) Anytime tak ada awan, ambil gambar. Ada awan, rehat (saya tengok DVD, bukan baca buku) Awan hilang, ambil lagi. Penting sebab kadang2 tak ada warning, terus hujan masa ambil gambar. Mana sempat nak lari dengan mount, kamera, komputer (nak selamat yang mana dulu?)
4) Ada kemudahan elektrik 
5) Tempat teduh
6) Selamat - tak ada orang kacau. Lebih2 lagi, kalau setup tempat lain, takut kacau 'orang' (ambil perhatian, 'orang' itu bukan orang) hu hu...
7) Tak ada dew!
Tak ada masalah tertinggal barangan - lupa kabel, bateri tak cas, kamera tak ada kad memory, counterweight tak bawak...aiseh
dan banyak lagi..

Agree with Shah, I also not agree with colourizing BW photo. Biar BW ataupun ambil RGB data, untuk buat color.

Gambar BW telah saya tambah warna guna gambar lama M83 saya yang diambil dengan DSLR. Gambar BW saya guna sebagai luminousity, cantum dengan gambar DSLR warna. Blur sikit untuk kurangkan noise.

[redzuan]

Memandangkan nak buat balai cerap ni sedikit susah sbb ramai duduk dalam bandar, especially for me, apakah setup minimal yang best utk direkomenkan?

Personally i was thinking a normal tracking mount, camera and lens. Tu je. Kalau perlu tracking, manual guiding la rasanya paling 'compact'.

Dengan proper drift alignment (30min setup) at least bleh mula dapat 3 minit subs dalam masa kurang sejam? Ntah ler... Need suggestions...

Very la ironic nyer. Pergi jauh2 masuk tempat kurang light pollution, dengan harapan dapat 10 minit subs, tapi kene susah payah sket dan tak promising juga. Last2 simple setup buat 3 minit subs yg cepat dan 'ringan'. End up dengan objek2 yand masih jg cerah shj.

Kalau buat balaicerap kat dalam kawasan KL ni pula mmg dapat sub exp kurang dr 3 minit je, maybe even less. Tp apabila langit terbuka luas, bila2 je boleh imej. Tapi limited kepada objek2 yg cerah shj. Namun, boleh cepat mengumpul objek2 tersebut, maybe kurang dr setahun.

So jalan mana mau ikut, tanpa melibatkan perpindahan tempat?

Mungkinkah remote observatory satu2nya solution?

Berikan pandangan anda...

[shahgazer]

Dengan proper drift alignment (30min setup) at least bleh mula dapat 3 minit subs dalam masa kurang sejam? Ntah ler... Need suggestions...

I would highly recommend you try it out practically, off site and on site. Steps can be daunting at first, but once you step away from 'hear-say' and give it a go, a lot of things will clear up.. seriously.. my first hand experience at Punggai. No harm done.

ada advantage jugak duduk jauh sikit dari kawasan 'metropolitan' , boleh focus sikit.. 

Kalau buat balaicerap kat dalam kawasan KL ni pula mmg dapat sub exp kurang dr 3 minit je, maybe even less. Tp apabila langit terbuka luas, bila2 je boleh imej. Tapi limited kepada objek2 yg cerah shj. Namun, boleh cepat mengumpul objek2 tersebut, maybe kurang dr setahun.

Let's make the best of what we have. Mari kita lihat apa yang boleh dirakam di bawah magnitude 3.5 skies.. HERE and HERE.

Sikit-sikit lama-lama jadi bukit.. 

[universe24]

I think that so called 3.5 limiting magnitude is just roughly guess with naked eye. No qualitative study on that....if not mistaken...
The sky brightness at certain limiting magnitude meaning that we cannot see anything dimmer than the stated magnitude. Thus, if we can capture a 8th mag galaxy under urban site, meaning when sky transperancy is good, the limiting magnitude can go down to at least 9th mag.

From what I experienced before, at my observatory, I manage to capture a star as low as 9th mag. But when we use our naked to look at the KL sky, under excellent sky condition, we might only can see up to 4th mag star by naked eye.

At UM observatory, I also can capture M104 & M51 which has magnitude of 9th & 8th mag respectively.

Thus, build up an observatory near KL region is possible. But another important issue keep us away from doing that, which is the weather. I noticed that KL only got 1-2 night with excellent sky of only half of the night. So, not worth to setup an expensive observatory. Maybe a roll-off style will do.

Anothet problem we face on building up an observatory is water leaking and high temperature during daytime.

For mobile style, there always has a way to deal with weather. Such as go oversea to a good site and do it for several night. I think the havest is better than in Malaysia and not wasting money and time.

If stick in Malaysia, then we gonna know the weather trend. Like at Langkawi, the best time is Dec - Feb. So this is what we should focus on.

[mymoon]

bad enough the perpetual clouds but now we have to live with new variables

cloud seeding  

and

solat istisqa



What we need is for astro-imaging with no heavy batteries, no laptop, preferably with guiding, no drift aligning and at focal lengths long enough to suit a reasonable variety of targets; all in a package small and light enough that one would be quite happy to take along on a long trip  by road

or

any recommendations for an aircraft  transportable mount ceteres paribus for east malaysia or overseas bearing in mind Air Asia is giving only 15kg.


cheers

[universe24]

Air Asia not giving any check in weight by free. The 15kg weight now charge at RM20 I think...

I got a recommendation about a small tracking system. Eyebell CD-1 or Takahashi TG-SPII. These two tracking system are really small and very convenient to bring along on our casual travel plan.

[redzuan]

Saya terjumpa Takahashi TG-SPII yang Mr Universe ada rekomenkan.

Agak menarik. Tp macam mana dengan kita di equator region? Macam memerlukan half pier. Susah tak nak aligh sebab gunakan tripod, susah nak buat minute (drift)adjustment?

Very tempting...

[universe24]

Mengikut experience saya, kalau ada satu tripod kamera yg cukup bagus, dgn lift sikit central part tripod tu, dah boleh.
Nak buat alignment bintang, cari lah tripod head yang boleh buat fine adjustment.

[mymoon]

an alternative maybe is remote telescope.

sila lihat  dengan mata kasar sendiri kerbekesanan nya pada Ahad 28 march 2010 mulai jam 9 pagi waktu tempatan.

klik disini untuk maklumat lanjut

dari Balai Cerap di New Mexico, Messier Marathon dgn video kamera.


Astronomy.FM

[shahgazer]

Messier marathon without GoTo but with the help of Integrated Video... interesting.